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★玛斯义陶芬、波姬红求真

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发表于 2022-11-14 20:05 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式 来自: 中国重庆

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★玛斯义陶芬、波姬红求真
◆.前言
1.老农休闲种养无花果、非品种控,仅盆栽有几个普品、对品种认知属幼儿园级,只为查询自己所种波姬红是否对版、才有此文,不讨论不解释、姑妄言之姑妄听之。
本文将告诉你——波姬红的原种是啥?波姬红、玛斯义陶芬是否是同一品种?这在论坛可争论了多年。
2.本文得到邦友@蓝天弧线的大力支持、提供相关的外网资料及图片,在此、老农深表感谢。

一.名称乱象
科研院所引进无花果品种,故作高深神秘用代码替代、不公开原种名,且未经正式审定中文名就推广;私人引种者、更是随意乱取名,扩繁育苗者有意或无意张冠李戴、以讹传讹,一种多名、异种同名、随意改名,怎一个乱字了得!

二.名不副实者、可有?
老农有2盆无花果标签为丰产黄、种了6年,其中1盆、虽一直怀疑有点不对劲,直到今年才得以最终确认不对版(实乃果王),而从该树剪枝分享出去的枝条、繁衍的苗子,将被冠以‘丰产黄’传世,罪过、罪过、罪过也!!!
波姬红、玛斯义陶芬本相似度极高,张冠李戴、名不副实者可能不止1~2人!

三.大玛、大波是同一品种吗?
波姬红乃1998年山东林科所引种于美国的德克萨斯州,最初引入代码A132、后正式审定中文名为波姬红;玛斯义陶芬从日本引入我国,何时引进、暂无考;2个品种有极高的相似度、难区分,不是同一品种、勿疑。
依据1——职业人同等状况下(同地同园子同管理)商业种植,果子大小及重量差异较大,规模大数量多、完全可排出偶然因素,咋解释?!
依据2——专业文献都把两个品种并列,说明啥?非同一品种也。
依据3——详后述
波玛不分家、2者为同一品种,引进渠道不同耳,这仅仅是休闲玩家的空想意淫!
老农休闲盆栽几盆、也无大玛,请同时批量种植有2品种者现身、拍照或视频来说说,谢谢。
@青衫烟雨客:貌似你家园子都有种?

四. 玛斯义陶芬、波姬红原种到底是啥?
1. 玛斯义陶芬(MasuiDauphine)
1908年,一个叫Kohjiro Masui的日本年轻人从美国加州带回一种无花果,后来在日本被广泛种植,原种可能就是加利福尼亚棕色土耳其,或基因自然变异、或优化选育而成超大果品种,定名为Masui Dauphine(玛斯义陶芬)传世。
Brown Turkey(棕色土耳其)、CaliforniaBrown Turkey(加利福尼亚棕色土耳其),顾名思义、其最初之古老原种来自土耳其,国内也有译为‘布朗土耳其’者。
California Brown Turkey的另一个名字叫San Piero圣·皮耶罗,California BT是美国一大商业化品种。
图片中的‘幼儿园’就是苗圃。
M-01.jpg

2.波姬红
①.由于翻译的缘故、无法直接从外网查询到波姬红这个品种,因其与棕色土耳其相似,有人认为其原种就是棕色土耳其;不管音译意译、两者貌似几乎没关系,无花果相似者多、故断言依据不充分。
②.本老农好不容易查询到——波姬红原种拉丁文名Fig Roune de Bordeaux,英文名Blue Giant(蓝色巨人),感觉这个说法靠谱。
A. Blue Giant(蓝色巨人)、又称为TexasBlue Giant(德克萨斯蓝巨人),波姬红于1998年由美国德克萨斯州引入、与引入地描述相符。
B. blue giant发音也很接近‘bo ji’,日照正常、果转色即为鲜艳的红色,取名‘波姬红’、从果色看非常贴切。
C. 从叶片、果实形状特征等属性看,波姬红与Blue Giant(蓝色巨人)非常非常相似。
T-10.jpg

③.国人看来是大红果,为何却叫蓝色巨人?
一是文化差异、二是侧重点不同。
日照正常、果转色即为鲜艳的红色,日照过足或完熟后、果色偏紫,完熟的果子带果粉、果霜(bloom),白色的‘霜’使紫色的果皮看起来呈现蓝色、故名Blue Giant也有道理。
3.相似之故
①. Texas Blue Giant(德克萨斯蓝色巨人)古老原种是来自地中海小岛塞浦路斯的Vazanata瓦扎纳塔,在很早的年代由美国园艺家Eddie Fanick埃迪·法尼克引进德克萨斯,塞浦路斯曾被土耳其统治,Texas Blue Giant(德克萨斯蓝色巨人)、Brown Turkey(棕色土耳其)有很近的亲缘关系。
②.玛斯义陶芬(MasuiDauphine)源自棕色土耳其(Brown Turkey),波姬红(Texas Blue Gian)也与棕色土耳其(Brown Turkey)有很近的亲缘关系,两者高度相似、不足为奇了。
③.波姬红——大果,果长卵形者居多、也有卵园形者,日照正常转色未完熟、果皮呈鲜艳的红色,日照过足或完熟后、果色偏紫泛蓝。
玛斯义陶芬——超大果,果卵形偏园者居多、也有长卵形者,膨大转色后、果色即偏紫暗淡,日照过足或完熟后、则呈紫黑色。
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五.大玛、波姬红图片
1.现今,养殖场对生猪投保,保险公司就会对生猪基因测序建库——防把其它地方的死猪拉来骗保,说明基因测序费用已经不高;对无花果做基因测序建库,不是难事、也不贵,无利益、没人愿意作为哦。
2.老农对大波、大玛果子的辨识,困惑已久、始终未能明辨,经向邦友们、商业种植者们咨询,由于叶型、果型及颜色等受季节苗情环境管理多种因素影响较大,以下判断、仅供参考。
大波——果柄(梗)长,枝条软,果长卵圆或长倒圆锥形,初皮亮红、色艳丽,后果色偏紫泛蓝,果肉中空、浅红或红色,相比更甜,果肋较浅,对灰霉抗性差。
大玛——果柄(梗)短,枝稍硬,果呈倒圆锥形,初皮紫红、色暗淡,后呈紫黑色,果肉无空心、桃红色,相比更大,果肋明显,抗性一般般。

3.果子图片
借用邦友@13319957933的大玛图
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老农自拍的波姬红图
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4.叶片图
叶片变数大,没啥参考价值,看看罢了。
老农的波姬红叶片
微信图片_20221114190925.jpg
微信图片_202211141909251.jpg

借用邦友@初儿拍摄的两种对比图
微信图片_202211141909253.jpg
微信图片_202211141909252.jpg

六.邦友@蓝天弧线提供的资料、图片
应老农的请求,邦友蓝天弧线提供了来自外网的相关资料、图片,有兴趣者、可翻译查阅,具体详楼下前几楼
1.Brown Turkey(棕色土耳其)、CaliforniaBrown Turkey(加利福尼亚棕色土耳其)
2.玛斯义陶芬(MasuiDauphine)
3.Vazanata瓦扎纳塔、塞浦路斯
4.Blue Giant(蓝色巨人)Texas Blue Giant(德克萨斯蓝色巨人)

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 楼主| 发表于 2022-11-14 20:06 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国重庆
邦友@蓝天弧线提供的相关外网资料及图片之一
1.Brown Turkey(棕色土耳其)California Brown Turkey加利福尼亚棕色土耳其)
Synonyms
Ashride Forcing, Aubicon, Aubique Noire, Black Douro, Black SanPedro, Black Spanish, Blue, Blue Burgandy, Brown Italian, Brown Naples,Brunswick, California Brown Turkey?, California Large Black, Common Blue, EarlyHowick, Eastern Brown Turkey, English Brown, Everbearing, Fluer de Red, Fleurde Rouge, Fleur Rauge, Harrison, Italian Large Blue, La Perpetuelle, LargeBlack, Lee’s Perpetual, Negro Largo, Nisse, Ramsey, San Pedro, San Pedro Black?San Piero? Texas Everbearing, Violetta
Small to medium light brown to violet fruit with strawberrypulp. Turbinate to oblique, mostly without neck. Small eye which has a reddishcolor from very early stage (unlike Celeste). Cold hardy. It fruits on newgrowth if winter killed. Often bears two crops a year. Very sweet, but notrich.  Midseason semi"dwarfadaptable tree produces large Brownish purple fruit with amber flesh.We"ve been growing this select gourmet variety of Brown Turkey for manyyears. Its one of our favorites!
California Rare Fruit Growers, Vol. 23, No.6, December 1991:Medium-to-large, elongated fruit with brownish maroon skin. Large open eye.Fine-grained, sweet, juicy, firm, meaty flesh. Excellent for jams, canning,drying, or eating fresh. Vigorous, small tree. Prune severely. A Europeanvariety, probably introduced into U.S. from England. It is not recommended forplanting as a dried fig variety. Brown Turkey trees produce a few large brebafigs that are utilized fresh. The second crop has medium to large fruits thatare also shipped to the fresh market. The eye is fairly open and the fruit issubject to insect infestations and souring.
Accession was donated. Jan-1982. California United States.Donors: University of California. Comment: Donated to NCGR, Davis.
Condit Monograph
Brown Turkey: (syns., according to Hogg: Ashridge Forcing,Blue, Common Blue, Blue Burgundy, Brown Italian, Brown Naples, Long Naples,Early Howick, Italian Large Blue, Lee’s Perpetual, Murrey, Small Blue, FleurRouge, Walton). Described by numerous authors, beginning with Miller (1768).Others are as follows: Hanbury (1770), Brookshaw (1812), George Lindley (1831),Rogers (1834), M’Intosh (1855), Dochnahl (1860), Thompson (1859), Hogg (1866),White (1868), G. S. (1869), Barron (1868c, 1891), Hyde (1877), Coleman (1880,1887b), Eisen (1885, 1888, 1901, probably confused), Wythes (1890a, 1900a), W.I. (1893), Wright (1895), Burnette (1894), Price and White (1902), Starnes(1903), Starnes and Monroe (1907), Ward (1904), McHatton (1909), Reimer (1910),Royal Hort. Society (1916), Potts (1917), Gould (1919), flume (1915), Cook(1925), Mowry and Weber (1925), E. A. Bunyard (1925, 1934), Arnold (1926),Fruit- Grower (1936), Ashley (1940), Woodard (1940), Beckett (1941), Anon.(1944), Condit (1947), and Preston (1951). Illustrated in color by Brookshaw,Hyde, and Coleman. Illustrated in black and white by Wythes (1900a), Price andWhite, Anon. (The Garden 63: 427, 1903), Bunyard (1934), and Beckett.
According to a writer in the Gardener’s Chronicle, March 25,1843, French growers have called this fig La Perpétuelle, a name corrupted inEngland to Lee’s Perpetual. Sources of other such names have not been found. Itshould be emphasized also that the name “Brown Turkey” has been commonly usedfor two distinct varieties; one, the English Brown Turkey, and the other,California Brown Turkey. The latter is properly referred to as “San Piero.”
John Rogers (1834) stated: “Miller in the fourth edition of hisDictionary just mentions the ‘long purple fig,’ though Whitmill (an eminentgardener of his day, and to whom Miller owed much for his early knowledge ofgardening), in his list or book, published in 1726, calls it ‘Whitmill’s EarlyPurple’; but which was neither more nor less than the ‘long purple’ of Miller.This little bit of vanity in Whitmill—to gain a sale for his trees, or a littlecelebrity to his name—has been too much practiced by many who were by naturehis juniors, and professionally by far his inferiors.”
The Brown Turkey that was described by Miller to be “so wellknown as to need no description” is undoubtedly a European variety, introducedinto England and given a local name without reference to origin. The synonyms,Brown Naples, Long Naples, and Italian, indicate that it came from Italy, butit has not yet been identified with any variety from that country. For morethan two centuries, however, this fig has stood at the head of the list ofEnglish varieties for general cultivation, both outdoors and under glass.Coleman reported in 1880: “For forcing we have nothing to surpass, if we haveanything to equal it, as it is early, handsome, very prolific, not liable todrop, and of first-rate quality.” An anonymous writer in 1852 (see “LiteratureCited”) described a tree at Worthing, trained in the form of a wheel, itsbranches forming twelve spokes, with the over-all height fourteen feet, and thecircumference thirty feet. In 1883, J. Clarke told of a single tree of BrownTurkey covering a wall space of twenty yards “literally crowded withmagnificent and well-formed fruit.” W. I. (1893) referred to fine trees growingon the chalk cliffs of England, where the sea spray dashed over them. Morerecently, E. A. Bunyard wrote: “This is the variety most commonly grown; moreare planted, I imagine, than of all the other varieties put together, owing toits hardiness and productivity.”
According to Eisen, the Brown Turkey was brought to Californiafrom Boston by W. B. West in 1853, and from England by John Rock in 1883. Ithas doubtless been introduced many other times by various nurseries. Earlyreports of the California Agricultural Experiment Station include Brown Turkeyamong the varieties being tested at the substations. Apparently, it failed tocompete successfully with other varieties, and until recently no trees were tobe found, even in collections. Introductions have been made from England underP.I. Nos. 81,676, 93,275, and 95,598. At Riverside, however, trees from theseimportations, as well as those obtained from the southern United States, are sobadly affected by the mosaic caused by Ficivir caricae Condit and Horne, thatnormal fruit has seldom been produced. (See plate 13, showing effect of mosaicon leaves.) On the other hand, trees growing in the southern and eastern statesare not at all or very little affected by mosaic. They are of a dwarf habit ofgrowth, and hardy, commonly bearing two crops. The Brown Turkey ranks withCeleste (Malta) as the most popular dooryard fig from Texas east to Florida andnorth to Maryland. The Everbearing fig of Texas, described by Close (1935), isvery similar to, if not identical with, Brown Turkey, although treated as adistinct variety by various nurseries. Harrison, briefly described by Close(1933), and Delta, or New Delta, described by two anonymous writers in 1943 and1944 (see “Literature Cited”), are also very similar to Brown Turkey.
Descriptions of fruit by Eisen and some other authors are notclear, as they are probably confused with similar varieties. Confusion alsoexists in some descriptions, as indicated by the two synonyms, Large Blue andSmall Blue, with reference to size of fruit. The following description is fromspecimens grown at Riverside and Fresno, and as compiled from various Englishaccounts.
Leaves small, mostly 3-lobed; upper surface dull; upper sinusesshallow and narrow; base subcordate; margins crenate.
Brebas few, medium, oblique-pyriform, with thick neck that isoften curved; stalk up to 1/2 inch long, sometimes swollen toward the body ofthe fruit; ribs prominent, producing a somewhat corrugated surface; eye medium,open, scales violet-brown; color mahogany brown, tinged with violet; meatwhite, with violet tinge; pulp strawberry; flavor fairly rich; quality fair.(Plate 21, D.)
Second-crop figs medium or below, turbinate or oblate, mostlywithout neck; average weight 28 grams; stalk up to 5/8 inch long, often thickand swollen at the apex; ribs present, fairly prominent, more deeply coloredthan body; eye medium, open, with violet-brown scales; white flecks large,conspicuous, scattered; color auburn to burnt umber; pulp amber to lightstrawberry, practically seedless; flavor sweet, but not rich; quality fair.(Plate 15,E.)
Caprified figs violet-brown, bloom prominent; average weight 36grams pulp strawberry; quality only fair. Second crop matures over a longseason.
Rogers (1834) stated that if Lee’s Perpetual—bearing fig is“cultivated as it should be—that is, in pots, under glass—it yields fruitnearly all the year round.”

美版棕色土耳其
CT-01.jpg
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CT-05.jpg
CT-06.jpg

英版棕色土耳其
CE-01.jpg
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CE-03.jpg

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 楼主| 发表于 2022-11-14 20:07 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国重庆
邦友@蓝天弧线提供的相关外网资料及图片之二
2.Masui Dauphine(玛斯义陶芬)
It seems that the Masui-Dauphine was imported from the US andis essentially a California Brown Turkey. Since then, some unique strains havebeen developed, all grouped under the Masui Dauphine name and given variousdesignations (e.g. B5 & #8).
Per Donor: "[In Japan, the fig] Industry did not developuntil 1908 when a young Kohjiro Masui left Hiroshima for California andreturned with a fig cultivar now called the Masui-Dauphine, (Sometimes spelledin English as Dolphin). It is unclear how this evolved but 90% of the figsgrown in Japan are Masui-Dauphine. There is some speculation that it evolvedfrom early California Smyrna figs. 98% of those sold commercially areMasui-Dauphine." Collected from Saitama Japan.
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 楼主| 发表于 2022-11-14 20:06 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国重庆
邦友@蓝天弧线提供的相关外网资料及图片之三
3. Vazanata(瓦扎纳塔、塞浦路斯)
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邦友@蓝天弧线提供的相关外网资料及图片之四
4.Blue Gian(蓝色巨人)Texas Blue Giant(德克萨斯蓝色巨人)
无花果可能是由西班牙人从地中海带到德克萨斯的。无花果在德克萨斯州的任何地方都生长得非常好,只要有较长的生长季节和适当的护理。圣安东尼奥甚至有幸在Fanick的苗圃有一个自家种植的无花果品种。范尼克爷爷在大约50-60年前为一种无花果树申请了专利,并将这种无花果命名为德克萨斯蓝色巨人。蓝色巨人 "生产的无花果特别大,有紫色的皮肤和琥珀色的果肉。它的新鲜或干燥效果非常好。你可以从Fanick苗圃购买爷爷的无花果树或许多其他品种的无花果,包括棕色火鸡、德克萨斯常青树、黑色任务、德克萨斯A&M阿尔玛、塞莱斯特、卡多塔和其他。范尼克苗圃是圣安东尼奥另一个隐藏的秘密,但对我们这些经常光顾的人来说,很欣赏他们友好的苗圃知识和帮助。范尼克园艺中心位于圣安东尼奥东侧的1025 Holmgreen Rd。
The Blue Giant Fig tree produces the largest figs or anyvariety. The are large ovals with short necks, and the size of an apple. Thepurple-maroon flesh often has a bluish bloom, and the flesh is amber withpurple touches. The flavor is delicious and sweet, full of honey and berryflavors, and of course it is best fully-ripened on the tree. Wait until theskin begins to crack before picking, and enjoy. This tree produces a large maincrop in late summer and fall, with some possibility of an early summer crop aswell if your winters are very mild.
The largest fruit of any fig – the size of an apple
Beautiful purple skin with a blue bloom, and amber flesh
A large main crop in late summer and into fall
A good variety for areas with mild winters and hot summers
Self-pollinating and vigorous
Plant your Blue Giant Fig tree in full sun, although it cantake a little shade in zone 10. The soil should be well-drained and it doesn’tneed to be rich – figs enjoy dry soils, including sands and rocky ground. Don’toverfeed or overwater, once your tree is established, as it has good droughtresistance. Pests or diseases won’t trouble it, and it grows rapidly, probablygiving you the first figs within 2 or 3 years.
Plant Hardiness
Zones 8-10
Mature Width
12-15
Mature Height
12-15
Soil Conditions
Well-Drained Soil
Sunlight
Full Sun
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曾口朝黄土背朝天,参加过‘农业学大寨’运动的、真资格老农。
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发表于 2022-11-14 21:11 来自手机 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国
我就种了两个品种,青皮和大芭。。。波姬红吃过没有种过。。所以我也不追求啥品种,自己喜欢就行。。无花果品种上百个我只认识七 ,八个
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发表于 2022-11-14 21:41 来自手机 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国四川达州
很费了些工夫,钻研精神令人叹服。
水平有限,没能理解透,只感觉大致意思是玛大波小???

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我感觉就是一个种分别传过不同地方后略微变异。  详情 回复 发表于 2022-11-17 12:25
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发表于 2022-11-14 21:52 来自手机 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国四川达州
可有国内哪个地区同时分别种有多棵这“两个品种”(楼主所说同地同园子同管理商业种植)并且有同一时期不同之处(尤其是楼主说的“果子大小及重量差异”对比照片?有图有真相,几张照片就能止息诸多争议(多年前就已推广,国内种植面积居各品种之首的品种不缺照片,照片早已[不是现在]超级多,在楼主这对这些“不同之处”却只见文字描述,不用照片举证,百密一疏?)
有照片,真相就在不远处。
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发表于 2022-11-14 22:00 来自手机 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国河北石家庄
两个品种还是有区别的,大玛枝条软弱一些,果子大一些,圆一些!
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发表于 2022-11-14 23:14 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国河南许昌
都批量种植的有··区别还是明显的·可惜被封在家两周了·没法拍照。

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静候佳音!  详情 回复 发表于 2022-11-17 12:24
是的。  详情 回复 发表于 2022-11-16 07:56

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时光静好,田园真趣。
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发表于 2022-11-15 06:26 来自手机 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国浙江台州
学习了。。。
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